Thursday, September 18, 2014


Luke 6: 22-23-"Blessed are you when men hate you, And when they exclude you, And revile you, and cast out your name as evil, For the Son of Man's sake. Rejoice in that day and leap for joy! For indeed your reward is great in heaven, For in like manner their fathers did to the prophets.

NazNet- Hypocrisy, Ignoring Scripture, And Personal Attacks
Republished from Manny Silva's Stand for Truth Ministries below in full unedited:

2 Tim 4: 1-5 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;  Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
The purpose of this is to warn every Bible-believing Christian about a certain kind of “Christian leader and pastor”, who is always ready to shut you up, ready to vilify you at the slightest sign of dissension towards their unbiblical views. This is to warn you and prepare you to deal with these kinds of wolves, some who may be leading your church now. This is to show you what kind of men are being sent out from the seminaries, to pastor churches with the watered down social gospel and with messages that lack biblical conviction. These men are blind to the very poison coming from their mouths, which they accuse all discernment ministries of, and which they accuse Christians who dare challenge their belief system.
NazNet is a Nazarene discussion forum on the internet, of which I am a member (from which I received a one week suspension for “laughing” at two comments). It includes a mixed group with varying theological leanings, although it is predominately a haven for emergent church and social justice types. It also allows Bible believing members, although as you will read here, many NazNetters are highly intolerant of outspokenness from the likes of me and others. A good number of these liberals do not believe in the inerrancy of scripture. Many of them reject the facts of Genesis 1-11 as a true historical account of creation, and instead have bought into the ungodly theory of evolution. They have a disdain for those who believe that the Bible is God’s inerrant, infallible word, often labeling us as “bibliolaters.”
Last week, as I perused some NazNet topics, I came across one that dealt with the suicide of the son of Ergun Caner, a former administrator at Liberty Baptist University. Caner had claimed to have been a former Muslim terrorist turned Christian, and when the facts came out that it was a lie, he was let go by Liberty. He is now the president of another Christian college. When his son committed suicide this year, not too long after he was confronted online by a longtime critic of Dr. Caner, many were very upset over what looked like an unwarranted attack of this young man. I have read details of this encounter, and I agree that the verbal attacks by Baptist preacher J.D. Hall were unnecessary and reckless. But what followed on NazNet turned into a blanket condemnation of any Christian who calls out false teachers or Christian leaders who are in error.
So here is where I got in trouble with Naznet. The topic only had three comments. I read the first one which mentioned that tragic death, and the writer, David Pettigrew, a Nazarene pastor, ended with this:

This phenomena of "discernment ministries" - those who feel it is their divine calling to expose "error" - is doing real damage to real people. I am convinced it is psychologically driven. It becomes a compulsion for those with this "calling" to attack.”
I then read the next two comments, which said the following:

“I’m convinced it is some kind of mental disease. At least, let's hope it is. For if these folks act with full mental powers, I would not want to stand in their shoes at judgement day.” (Hans Deventer, Nazarene licensed minister)
“IMO most "discernment ministries" are nothing more than bullying and most "discerners" are self-justifying bullies.”(Jon Bemis, Nazarene pastor)
I then clicked the “laugh button”, believing that I thought that this was an absurd, blanket condemnation of all discernment ministries. Sometime later is when the attacks started, and the rest of the discussion is a perfect illustration of the complete hypocrisy of these people. Keep in mind that quite a few of them are ordained elders and pastors of churches, who are supposed to be examples of Christ-like conduct. The following quotes are other examples of their “Christ-like” conduct and their truly hypocritical behavior and blindness to the very things they they accuse me and others of. Remember, these are some of the leaders of today’s churches.
“This is why they are called online discernment mafias. They operate in secret and have no accountability whatsoever.” (Bob Hunter)
“I'm increasingly convinced that when we spend time and energy on peripheral issues such as eschatology and witch-hunting in the name of the Lord, aka 'discernment ministries', we're setting ourselves up for some real problems.” (John Kennedy)
“Self proclaimed holy wars never have a problem sacrificing life at the alter of "truth" (Cam Pence, Nazarene pastor)
“It's the mean spirited, sarcastic, loveless, prayerless presentation, both online and in person, that causes the Concerned Nazarenes to not be taken seriously by anyone outside their facebook club. Nobody can hear your message because of your methods. This will be my only response to you, as I find exchanges with you are pointless.” (David Pettigrew, Nazarene pastor)
“I think the fundamental problem with discernment ministries is that those involved fail to see that they are not actually very discerning.” (Kevin Rector, Nazarene pastor)
You're like Hamas, crying over the casualties they have created themselves by their tactics. Very sad for the casualties, but Hamas is the real cause of their suffering.” (Hans Deventer, Nazarene licensed minister)
I gave my argument for posting the laugh icons, noting that it was unfair to paint all discernment ministries this way. I argued using scripture, showing them how time and time again, we are commanded to expose false teaching, thus what we are doing is biblical and necessary in these times. I pointed out how I was criticized for using these laugh icons, yet the moderator did not scold anyone else about the comments they made that were, shall we say, over the top? (mental disease? bullies? discernment mafias? witch hunting? comparing me to the terrorist group Hamas?)
In reading through the topic, I noticed the same things that they do on a regular basis:
  1. Taking Scripture out of context. They select certain scripture passages in order to reprimand me, but ignore the very scripture I showed which validated my position. They refused to address that at all. These people are purposely ignorant of the truth, and often use what they accuse us of- cherry picking scripture, or proof-texting. They are guilty of that tactic, over and over. In another proof-text, pastor Kevin Rector quotes Heb. 13:17 to emphasize that we should obey our spiritual leaders and do what they say (touch not mine anointed, perhaps?). Yet he apparently conveniently ignores any scripture which warns us to watch out for the wolves amongst us, such as Gal. 1:6-10.
  2. They use personal attacks. I understand why they do this, because they have no other basis to argue with. They lack the scriptural understanding (or perhaps ignore it) that would allow them to correct those who expose their false teachings. They are desperate to protect their territory, and will try to destroy your character in order to do it. They hypocritically judge a pastor’s mean use of words that led to the suicide of a young man, yet they have no problem using mean words on others. How ironic!
  3. They employ emotional tactics to get sympathy, such as telling a touching story. When David Pettigrew gave an example of what he says was the devastation caused by a discernment ministry to a pastor and his family, I returned the favor by giving an example that I knew of, of a pastor who caused great harm to a family. Instead of acknowledging this story as legitimate also, he scolded me for telling it, perhaps unable to admit that there have been a lot of people from “his side” who have brought damage to many Christians also.
  4. Their insincerity. Take for example, Bob Hunter, one of my most vicious attackers over the last few years. He followed up later with this: “I pray for you. I pray your family is well and your life is blessed. I really do.” This is the same Bob who had no problem labeling discernment ministries as mafia types, and who has called me some of the worst things over the last few years. Why would someone pray for my life to be blessed, when I am supposed to be someone who is tearing apart the church, according to many of them?
  1. Their dependence on the “Church manual” more than scripture. As an example, here is what Kevin Rector said:

    “if it creates division in the body of Christ over non-essentials then it is of Satan and not of God (By the way, the church decides what is "essential", not the individual - for example, you and I don't have the spiritual authority given by God to define that which is essential for the Church of the Nazarene - that is done by the General Assembly).”
    So Kevin Rector and others apparently believe that if the General Assembly declares something, we should accept it without question, because it is “the church” that decides! To these people, it is the denomination that decides what is essential, not the Bible! This is outrageous, but this view is perhaps the norm now in the Church of the Nazarene.
  2. They don’t understand scripture. Bob Hunter misuses Matt. 18 when he said this: “Yes, the online discernment ministries have earned a bad reputation among reputable Christian leaders. They have a track record of beingruthless, unsympathetic, and mean. They never follow Matt. 18 and privately conduct matters.” Bob apparently has
    never read such passages as Gal 2:14 that describes Paul scolding Peter publically for teaching a false doctrine. These people constantly misapply the principles of Matthew 18. Again, no correction by using scripture at all; just giving opinions unsupported by God’s word.
  3. Their hypocrisy. They scold me for using the laugh button, eventually delete my laughs, and then suspend me for a week, for violating NazNet laws. Not rules, but laws! Yet, they never scold their own publically (or very rarely). They tend to look the other way unless it is an extremely outrageous comment, and make the excuse that since they did not use my name, it is not a problem with what they said. Quote Kevin Rector: “You did not say that what they said was "funny" you said it was "laughable". That is a put-down, not a compliment.” Apparently, to them, it is not a put-down to compare me to Hamas, or to imply I have a mental disease, accuse me of being on a witch-hunt, or that I am loveless, hateful, and just plain mean. Don’t correct us with scripture; just call us names.
Please understand, these people have not hurt my feelings. I don’t lose sleep over their insults. I am not looking for sympathy, because I don’t need it. I confess I am not perfect and do not know everything. I am trying to follow scriptural commands which tell us to protect the flock from false teachings.   And if they are proud of what they write, I am glad to expose that to other Christians, and let folks decide if their behavior as pastors is Christ-like or not. In my opinion, they have disqualified themselves as pastors with their behavior.
So my purpose is to show you how sad the state of the Nazarene church is today, as well as most denominations, in regards to those who are supposed to be leaders. These men speak their words publically in front of hundreds of other Christians, therefore they are accountable for their words. I have no problem pointing out their hypocrisy, and the false teachings coming from them, when it is clearly seen. There is no Matthew 18 directive with their public comments; we are not to “go to each of them” as they often say we should; we are to expose them publically, because they have committed these wrongs publically.
I have no doubt that if you are a member of a church led by men such as these, that someday if you decide to question what they are doing, and what they are teaching, please be prepared for the worst. They will be gentle at first, even kind and understanding. But if you persist, they will go on to follow the same advice Rick Warren gives in the Purpose Driven Church book, and that is to get rid of those who don’t go along with the crowd. You will be painted a troublemaker, you will be ostracized, and you will need to leave. They will attack your character and try to smear your reputation. In the end, these kinds of people are only thinking about themselves and their agenda. It has nothing to do with following the will of God and obeying His word.
Pray for the repentance of some of these men, who are demonstrating they are a real danger to the church.

Addendum: The entire conversation thread at NazNet:
Part 2 next week


Acts 5: 27-29-"And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest asked them, saying, "Did we not strictly command you not to teach in this name? And look, you have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this Man's blood on us!" But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: 
"We ought to obey God rather than men."

Another Baptist leader, Dr. Daddy, stated: 
"Hitler was not perfect, but at least he was anti-Communist."

"Should Christians Be 
Politically Active?"
By Gina Miller at:; republished blow in full unedited for informational, educational, and research purposes:

Last week on Facebook I was chastised by a fellow Christian for being politically active. She accused me of blasphemy, idolatry, apostasy and scripture twisting for my defense of Christians being engaged in the public battle for the soul of our nation. She is apparently one of the "pacifist" Christians who believes that we are never to speak out against the evils done by civil government, because God ordains all authority. Our conversation thread was on a press release I posted from Senator Ted Cruz announcing his proposed legislation to strip the U.S. citizenship of any American who joins ISIS.

The lady, who uses a pseudonym of "Barefoot Inhispresence," wrote that God is sovereign. Then she cited Daniel's proclamation (2:20-21) that He establishes kings and removes them, and she takes Jesus' silence before Pilate to extrapolate that we should remain silent in the face of governmental injustice. I wrote to her, "Yes ... the Lord is sovereign. He also calls us to expose the works of darkness."

To which she responded:

As they apply to the Church, not rant about the gvmt. There is nothing in scripture telling us to focus on that except to pray for those HE has set in authority. Oh, except that to grumble against them is blasphemy against Him, and He takes that very seriously. Politics are not any focus in should not be ours either. We are here to proclaim the gospel, period. And to make certain the Church is not being tainted by leaven. Like a bunch of professors who serve the enemy by distracting believers from their one commanded proclaim the gospel. And to obey the Lord.

To that, I replied:

How many times did Jesus rebuke the Pharisees? Remember, the Pharisees were not only the "religious" leaders but also the political leaders of Israel at the time. Jesus had strong words for the injustice and the hypocrisy the Pharisees displayed.

There are many evils that Christians have rightly condemned throughout the ages, slavery being one of them. Using the argument that Christians should never engage in the "culture wars," slavery would not likely be abolished anywhere, and no one would speak out against the mass slaughter of pre-born babies. We have no way of knowing how many lives have been saved because Christians have been willing to target abortion mills to pray and try to persuade women not to have their babies killed.

Our Founding Fathers were overwhelmingly Christian, and if they believed they should never speak against tyranny, such as that of King George, there would be no United States.

That was enough for her. She then threw the harshest of labels at me, a fellow Christian, and afterward "unfriended" me. She wrote:

Ah, that's too bad. You are more wedded to your "cause" than to the word of God in context and application. You ARE good at fallacious straw man diversions though. Very disappointing. Well, sis...that is idolatry, as well as blasphemy (again, only according to God in His word in Romans can easily ignore that some more I'm sure). Well, I did what God said to do, I warned you. Your choices and your idols are on your head not mine. But this ungodly, scripture twisting apostasy...I shall not "walk with."

Putting aside the fact that this woman is a stranger to me who knows nothing at all about who I am, what I do (other than the limited knowledge she can glean from my columns and Facebook posts) or the status of my walk with the Lord, and setting aside her condemnation of me (the very kind the "judge not" scriptures are actually talking about), is she right in her claim that Christians should not be politically active? This is a question with which many Christians have struggled, due to the lack of overt New Testament admonitions to do so.

Yet how many Christians throughout history, inspired by the fire of God's Word in their spirits, have stood firmly against evil actions by civil governments? Were they wrong? Was William Wilberforce wrong, as a member of the British Parliament and a Christian, to work to abolish slavery and to speak out against other societal ills, while advocating for God's morality in the public square? Was Telemachus the monk wrong for standing against the barbaric Roman gladiator spectacles, for which he paid with his life? Were our Founding Fathers (most of whom were Bible-believing Christians) wrong for standing against the tyranny of King George, standing to the point of violent revolution, in establishing a nation by God's grace? The list of Christians who have firmly engaged civil government with the powerful weapon of God's truth is long and includes the apostles and Jesus Himself.

As I said to "Barefoot Inhispresence," Jesus strongly rebuked the political-religious leaders of Israel, and this includes His fiery demonstration against the money changers in the temple. The apostles regularly defied the civil authorities when they refused to silence the message of the Gospel. You could argue that this was all exclusively in the furtherance of the Gospel, but does the Lord not call us to apply His Word to all areas of our lives?

Writing at the Good News Herald, Gary DeMar states:

First, while it's true that civil government is ordained by God, so are family and church governments. If there are problems in a particular family or church, shouldn't we be about fixing the problems? Civil governments don't get a pass when they do bad things.

Second, is praying for those who are in authority all we should do? How often have the people in Germany been criticized when the majority of the population did nothing when they learned of what Adolf Hitler was doing to the Jews? Corrie ten Boom was a Dutch Christian, who with her father and other family members helped many Jews escape the Nazi Holocaust during World War II. When Jews entered their watch shop, should they have sent them away and told them that the Nazi government was "ordained by God" and that they would pray [for] the frightened Jews? Should we praise the informant who turned them into the Gestapo because the informant was "supporting the God-ordained" government?

... Third, it's the duty of citizens to insure that civil governments stay within their jurisdictional boundaries. This is exactly what the apostle Paul did when he questioned the authority of a civil official regarding his rights as a Roman citizen (Acts 22:23–30) and later appealed to Caesar (25:11).

... If it was right for Paul to "protest" this single violation of his rights as a Roman citizen, why is it wrong to protest constitutional violations given the fact that Constitution itself in the First Amendment gives us the right – the obligation – to "petition the government for a redress of grievances"?

It would be hard to support the argument that Christians are wrong for opposing government actions that God calls evil. Abortion is murder. God calls us to defend the powerless among us. How can anyone justify standing by silently as millions of pre-born babies are slaughtered in the evil name of "choice"? Are the dear Christians, whose hearts are heavy with the burden of grief over this hell-born "woman's right," wrong to tirelessly spend countless hours in prayer and abortion mill sidewalk ministry to the women and girls who enter these dens of death?

Are Christians wrong for speaking out against the dangerous political agenda of the tyrannical homosexual movement? God calls the sin of homosexuality an abomination. This abominable sin is being used by our evil culture and political leaders as a "right" to wage a full-frontal assault on Christianity itself, as well as our God-given freedoms and the very foundations of our constitutional Republic – a Constitution and a Republic that is, next to the nation of Israel, the most God-blessed in human history.

Yes, God will avenge every wrong done by the Godless in this world, but I do not believe He desires us to stand silently by in the face of evil done by our civil leaders. Further, opposing this same evil is not "blasphemy" against the Lord nor apostasy against His Word.

In conclusion, here is an excerpt from a column by John Neish published at the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod:

Many Christians seem to be unable to distinguish between their duties as Christian witnesses and as Christian citizens. They criticize politically active Christians.

Those well-meaning Christians who criticize politically active brothers and sisters are mixing apples and oranges – using the definition of the spiritual mission of the church to criticize Christians who exercise their political rights.

... God gave us this political system. Through it, he allows his people the opportunity to influence the political process. If we as Christian citizens are to give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, we should participate. We also have a responsibility to act on our Christian principles.

We should not be content to treat political responsibility as though it were separate from faith. We are the light of the world. Is it proper for us, therefore, to stand silently by and watch those living in blindness steer themselves – and us and our children – into destruction? I feel very strongly that we will be held accountable for our continued silence.

We have the same political freedom as unbelievers. We have the same opportunity to stand up for and vote for legislation that represents our values. We have as much right to work for legislation to restrict evil as our opponents do to propagate it.

... The apostle Paul used his civil rights. Why shouldn't we?



"Ecclesiastes Series: But That's Not Fair: 

The Believer's Response to Injustice"

(From a Fundamentalist Baptist Defeatist, Fatalist Perspective, Passively Promoting Compliance With Evil Government 

& Evil in General):

Published on Sep 9, 2014
Ecclesiastes Series: But That's Not Fair: The Believer's Response to Injustice;
Pastor Josh Canedy;


"Servants Of Corruption" (Victims of Judicial Injustice)-

Sermon by Chuck Baldwin September 21, 2014:

Published on Sep 21, 2014
This message was preached by Chuck Baldwin on Sunday, September 21, 2014 during the service at Liberty Fellowship. To purchase a copy of this sermon or to support the fellowship please visit









It can’t happen here!
How many times have we heard this claim?
But it can happen here. Many will tell you that it is happening here.
It seems that almost on a daily basis we are losing our God-given rights. Some even make the case that there is a direct assault on the Christian religion because it is the only belief system that is greater than government and puts limits on governments. Relegating God to a distant corner of the universe empowers and emboldens governments to do what they will. In pre-Nazi Germany, many Christians were under the false assumption that they had to go along with whatever their civil rulers demanded. For decades before the rise of Hitler, Christians were subjected to arguments like the following from pastors and theologians:
  • The Gospel has absolutely nothing to do with outward existence but only with eternal life, not with external orders and institutions which could come in conflict with the secular orders but only with the heart and its relationship with God.
  • The Gospel frees us from this world, frees us from all questions of this world, frees us inwardly, also from the questions of public life, also from the social question. Christianity has no answer to these questions.
  • Once the Christian understands the moral significance of the state he will consider obedience to the government to be the highest vocation within the state. For the authority of the state on the whole, resting as it does upon authority of the government, is more important than the elimination of any shortcomings which it might have.
While many Christians might have been opposed to Nazi policies, they had been conditioned to believe they could not do anything about them. Much of their thinking was shaped by a misreading of Romans 13 and a misapplication of Matthew 22:21 where Jesus says Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars. As with all authority, there are limits, including limits on civil government. It might also help to realize that we do not live under Caesar. Our civil rulers took an oath to uphold the Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land. Neither the president nor the members of Congress are Caesar. If we have a Caesar, it is the United States Constitution. But even the Constitution recognizes its own limits and the right of the people to (1) express their grievances, (2) vote corrupt and oath-breaking rulers out of office, and (3) change existing laws.
The Bible tells us that civil rulers are ministers of God. The Greek word translated ministers is the same word used to describe ministers in a church. There are civil ministers and church ministers. Both serve as God’s ministers within their jurisdictions. It is unbiblical to assume that civil rulers are autonomous, that they can legitimately rule independent of Gods limiting authority of them. It is a serious mistake to take Paul’s instructions in Romans 13 and claim that civil rulers cannot be challenged by the citizenry.
Notice the use of governing authorities in Romans 13:1. There’s not just one ruler; there are many. Even Rome had governors and other civil officials. Our own system of civil government follows the biblical model of multiple civil rulers with county, state, and national authorities. American civil government was designed to be decentralized and limited at all levels. We have a United States Constitution and 50 state constitutions. It's unfortunate that as a nation we have turned unwarranted and unconstitutional authority over to the national government to the exclusion of state and county governments.
Civil authorities are to rule in terms of good and evil. There is no room for tyranny in these words. Those who rule are bound by the same laws as the rest of us. That’s why there is no divine right of kings in the Bible. The prophet Nathan challenged King David to do right. Daniel was not a revolutionary when he opposed the king’s law. John the Baptist rebuked King Herod for his sexual sins. Jesus even called him a fox. Peter continued to preach, obeying God rather than man, even though he was commanded to stop by the authorities of his day. Paul used his Roman citizenship to challenge the Roman Empire. Paul spent a great deal of time in prison because he was seen as a threat to the Empire.
To obey Romans 13 is to call our civil officials to uphold their oath of office, an oath that nearly all of them took by repeating the words “So help me God!”
James Willson’s study of Romans 13 is needed more than ever. What’s most helpful about it is that it was written in a time that is not muddied by the politics of our day. There are no current or recently passed politicians named. He sticks to principles based on the Bible. If we are to save our Republic, then we are bound to heed his instruction and warnings.


We live in an age and country of liberal ideas regarding government – an age when the right of the people are watched with the utmost sagacity and vigilance. Popular rights are matters taken for granted, and anything that runs counter to them is at once rejected. Infidelity attempts to turn this feeling in behalf of liberty into it own channel to rouse it against the Bible, as it is favored absolute and irresponsible power;and they avail themselves, and with no little success, of the mistaken exposition of the very passage before is. The expositors to whom we have referred intend to strengthen the arm of any and all civil authority these interpretations the infidel schoolhouse for the overthrow of the authority of the Bible. Both are met and foiled by one process simply by a just analysis of the passage itself. ~James Mcleod Willson
“Civil government continues to increase in authority, power, and scope. Too many Christians are under the false impression that they are obligated to endure the legislative acts handed down by government officials no matter how evil they may be. This is a simplistic and dangerous reading of Paul’s instructions in Romans 13. Elected officials are as equally bound to distinguish between good and evil in the area of civil government as are unelected citizens. Being a ruler offers no exemption. James Willson’s exposition of Romans 13 is a much needed antidote to both the advocacy of passivity and rebellion that some are inclined to take.” - Gary DeMar, author and President of American Vision
About the Author: James M. Willson was born near Elizabeth, Allegheney County, Pennsylvania on November 17, 1809. He graduated from Union College in 1829. He studied theology under the direction of this father, James R. Willson, and was licensed by the Presbytery, June 5, 1834. He was ordained by the same Presbytery, and installed Pastor of the First Congregation of Philadelphia, November 27, 1834. He was elected Professor of Theology in the Allegheny Seminary, May 31, 1859. He authored numerous pamphlets and books, including Bible Magistracy: or Christ’s Dominion over the Nations: With an Examination of the Civil Institutions of the United States and An Essay on Submission to the Powers that Be. James M. Willson died at his residence in Allegheny, August 31, 1866. 


Mike Huckabee: Christians ‘Shouldn’t Just Accept Things 

That Are Ungodly’ in Government; 

Unconditional Obedience to 

"God Ordained Government" 

A Cover For Ministerial Fear & Cowardice

"Huckabee opined. “I would remind people that the judicial branch is not the supreme branch, and the Supreme Court is only the Supreme Court, not the Supreme Being. And I feel that we have failed in civics to understand that there are three branches of government, and one can’t overrule the other two, and all three of them together can’t overrule the people.”
“Yet, we have people who say, ‘Well, the courts have ruled on abortion, we’ll have to live with it,’ or, ‘The courts have ruled on same-sex marriage, we have to live with it,'” he continued. “I would suggest no, we don’t. We shouldn’t just accept things that are ungodly and that will cause us to have to stand before God with bloody hands. I think that’s where we’ve failed.”
“We are now seeing, in our day, the results of a pietistic Christianity. Because the pietists retreated from the culture, the institutions of the culture have been annexed and overtaken by pagan men,” he said." 

Romans 13 – Should the Church Obey God or the Government?

( -- August 6, 2013) Naperville, IL -- Romans 13 has long been a controversial topic both within the church and outside the church. Should the church obey God or obey the government? The controversy is settled and the question is answered in Higher Powers – Discover Their True Identity by Greg Backes.
Is it possible that a corrupt or evil government would use the commonly accepted interpretation of Romans 13 against the Christian believer? Could a government leader say he must be obeyed because he has received his authority from God?
It has happened before! It could happen again! What a travesty for God's people if that were to take place today.
Bernhard Rust (Minister of Science, Education and National Culture in Nazi Germany), in a speech to a mass meeting of German Christians on June 29, 1933 said, "If anyone can lay claim to God's help, then it is Hitler,..." It has been stated that Hitler's favorite Bible verse was Romans 13:1. Read the sample chapter “The Kingdoms of this World” here.
In Higher Powers – Discover Their True Identity you will:
  • Learn the true identity of the higher powers.
  • Know the gifts that God has given unto men.
  • Discover who really runs the kingdoms of this world.
  • Know the spiritual abilities mentioned in Romans chapter 12.
  • Understand what to pray for regarding government leadership.
  • Appreciate the difference between the Old Testament kings of Israel and today's government leaders.
  • Understand when to obey God and when to obey the government.
  • Read the note written to today’s higher powers.
Author, Greg Backes, says “It is vitally important that the Christian church understand the identity of the higher powers of Romans 13. The German people were fooled in the 1930’s resulting in millions of deaths. We must never allow a travesty such as that to occur again.”
Higher Powers is offered by Hope of Glory Bible Ministry and is available in the Kindle bookstore and the iTunesbookstore. The book is also available in soft cover.
Hope of Glory Bible Ministry
Greg Backes
P.O. Box 9002
Naperville, IL 60567
Phone: 630-717-7712

"If anyone can lay claim to God's help, then it is Hitler, for without God's benevolent fatherly hand, without his blessing, the nation would not be where it stands today. It is an unbelievable miracle that God has bestowed on our people." [Evangelical Minister Rust, in a speech to a mass meeting of German Christians on June 29, 1933 [Helmreich, Ernst Christian, "The German Churches Under Hitler," Wayne State University Press, 1979, p. 138]
"Other pastors openly welcomed the Nazis, believing that the reintroduction of government by Christian authorities, affirmed St. Paul that 'the power that be are ordained by God'." (Romans 13:1) ["Christianity in Europe during WWII", by Jim Walker, 1 June, 2000]
Today, many pastors are enunciating this Biblical quote in an attempt to justify supporting Bush's Illuminist war against Iraq -- Remember, World War III has been planned since 1870 to produce Antichrist. Perhaps the Scripture we need to focus on is: "We ought to obey God rather than men." [Acts 5:29] 
"... a number of U.S. Baptists wrote sympathetically of Hitler's Germany. I came to this conclusion while writing an article on the Baptist World Alliance congress in Berlin in 1934. An immense Nazi flag, hung where the congress met, was a vivid reminder of the bloody purge executed only a few weeks before by anti-Semitic fascists. ["U.S. Baptists said surprisingly nice things about Hitler", Baptist Standard, by Professor Lloyd Allen - Church History at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky -- May 27, 2002]
"John Sampey, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, cautioned against hasty judgment of a leader (Hitler) who had stopped German women from smoking cigarettes and wearing red lipstick in public. The Watchman-Examiner carried a letter by Boston pastor John Bradbury. Of the congress, he wrote, "It was a great relief to be in a country where salacious sex literature cannot be sold; where putrid motion pictures and gangster films cannot be shown." [Ibid.]
In light of post-World War II revelations about the Satanic monstrosity of Adolf Hitler, one can only sit back in amazement as they contemplate how easily fooled these Baptist leaders and pastors were about Adolf Hitler; they casually excused all of Hitler's early writings, such as Mein Kampf and his fiery anti-Semitic speeches from 1921-1934, in which he boldly stated he was going to "line the Jews up against the wall" for execution! And, why did they so excuse these bold evidences of the true nature of Hitler? Because he did not allow pornographic and gangster films, nor women smoking cigarettes and wearing red lipstick in public?!
Why, this easy justification of Adolf Hitler by these high-ranking Baptists in 1934 pales in comparison only by today's Evangelical and Baptist leaders justifying President George W. Bush despite his bold gay agenda, his public attack in shutting down a Baptist church, his obvious attempt to gather dictatorial powers to himself using terrorism as the excuse, and a dozen other clear indicators that he is producing only rotten spiritual fruit.
Professor Allen lists some other specific reasons these Baptist leaders gave Hitler such a pass on the clear evidences of spiritual disaster:
"This focus on [Hitler's] personal piety resulted partially from a frontier religious ethic. On the American frontier, where Baptist strength arose in the Second Great Awakening, the most crucial ethical decisions were personal--alcoholism, spousal abuse and violence. Few complex social structures existed on the frontier to attract a sustained moral critique. Baptists equated eliminating the sins of the flesh with Christian living."
"Mass evangelism was a second factor in Baptist blindness to the Nazi evil. Some Baptists believed that evangelism and the world order were two circles that never intersected ... "Evangelical Christianity transcends all political and social systems," according to an Alabama Baptist article that appeared that same year. As long as governments, even fascist governments, did not interfere with soul-saving, they could be tolerated." [Ibid.]
What would Jesus say in response to this nonsensical line of argument? "Ye blind guides, filtering out a gnat, and gulping down a camel." Matt 23:24; Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary]
Christian leaders today who are applauding President Bush are guilty of the same disastrous thinking: they are "gulping down a camel" even as they are refusing to acknowledge the major disastrous spiritual fruit emanating from the president. History does, indeed, repeat itself when people do not follow the Holy Spirit carefully, the news carefully, and draw the proper conclusions.
But, the news as to why Baptist leaders applauded Hitler gets even more disastrous. Listen to Professor Allen explain in another article, "How Baptists Assessed Hitler, written in September, 1982:
"Surely a leader who does not smoke or drink, who wants women to be modest, and who is against pornography cannot be all bad, or so the reasoning went. As M. E. Aubrey of England observed in the Baptist Times, Hitler had “brought almost a new Puritanism, which makes its appeal to our Baptist friends, and for the sake of which they can overlook much that cuts across their natural desires.” Baptists from the United States ignored the fact that interpreters were barred from even rendering the word “democracy” in Aubrey’s speech. Priority was placed on personal habits, to the detriment of larger, more vital issues." {Ibid.]
Equating Adolf Hitler with the word, "Puritanism" is spiritual blindness of a staggering proportion! M.E. Aubrey even admitted there was much about Hitler that was of great concern to Christians, but he smoothed that problem over by stating that Hitler's "new Puritanism" is so strong that Christians can "overlook much" about him that gives them great concern! In other words, Christians who had personally compared Hitler's spiritual fruits against Bible doctrine, and had concluded he was evil, could "overlook" their conclusions because of Hitler's supposed "new Puritanism"! Today, we see exactly this kind of twisted logic at work!
Professor Allen then records for posterity that the numbers of Baptists who felt positive about Hitler was more than a few radical fringe types:
"“Quite a number of correspondents of our Southern Baptist papers writing about the BWA seemed to have a kindly feeling and a good word for Hitler and his regime,” Wrote R. H. Pitt in Religious Herald." [Ibid.]
"Victor I. Masters of the Western Recorder went even further, writing, “Most of the testimony we have from our brethren who went to the [1934] Baptist World Alliance in Berlin has seemed with great spontaneity and readiness to accept the opinion that all is well in Germany." [Ibid.]
Did you catch that phrase, uttered even as Hitler was beginning to secretly murder Jews: "all is well in Germany".
Narrowly Focussing On One Single Issue
Professor Allen then drops a bombshell in identifying the major issue blinding Baptists to Hitler: he had them focussing on one major issue. Listen:
"A final reason for Baptist vulnerability to Hitler’s 1934 policies was a single-issue criterion for appraising foreign governments: anticommunism. In 1934, if a government was anti-Communist, it deserved recognition and support. Dr. Leek wrote:
'Our observation is, that while Hitlerism is doubtless not the ultimate end, for Germany directly or Europe indirectly, it is for Germany a safe step in the right direction. Nazism has at least been a bar to the universal boast of Bolshevism' [Alabama Baptist XCIX 36 (September 6, 1934)]."
Another Baptist leader, Dr. Daddy, stated: "Hitler was not perfect, but at least he was anti-Communist." [Ibid.]
Therefore, because Hitler strongly opposed Communism, as did international Baptists, it was all right to ignore all the spiritually rotten fruit coming from Hitler and his National Socialist regime! We see this happening today in Ecumenical circles, don't we? Today, Liberal Christianity is allowing itself to be drawn in to the One World Religion of the future False Prophet, through the lie that religions need to focus upon what they can agree, ignoring that about which they do not agree! This is the essence of the Ecumenical Movement today, the ultimate goal of which is to form the religion that will serve the two Beasts of Revelation 13!
Right now, in America, President Bush is utilizing exactly the same "Narrow Focus" technique that is blinding Christians from seeing his rotten spiritual fruit! What is this Narrow Focus? It is Terrorism! Bush has so galvanized us of the absolute necessity of fighting global terrorism and ending the states that support it, that he has blinded too many Christians to his true spiritual nature.
History is repeating itself!
Not All The Baptists Were Fooled
"Fortunately, most Baptists in 1934 took a different route, supporting soul liberty, the kinship of all persons and the separation of church and state. Still, all Christians today need to remember which paths in 1934 led some to embarrassing dead ends." [Ibid.; Emphasis added
Thank God "most Baptists in 1934" recognized the true spiritual matters that demanded their attention, and so did not fall into the trap of supporting Adolf Hitler; still, the Baptist leaders who did support Hitler lead many, many Christians astray at a most crucial time in world history. Christians are positionally in the same spot today as in Berlin, 1934. Too many respected Evangelical leaders are urging their people to support President Bush, even though loads of evidence exists that demonstrates his true spiritual nature, and even more evidence that should convince all people that this attack on Iraq is based upon nearly nothing! Why do you think tens of millions of people marched in global Antiwar protests on Saturday, February 15? They had read the news reports warning that our "evidence" against Iraq was tenuous at best, manufactured at worst.
Yet, because Christians are patriotic, because they do not want to believe that our presidency could be seized by Illuminists bent on staging Antichrist, and because they are focussed on the narrow specific issue of global terrorism, they are willing to give President Bush their support.

Misusing Scripture Romans 13 Tim Baldwin Reports: